Nvidia and AMD

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Nvidia and AMD

Postby Julio Jerez » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:48 pm

do you guys remember when I talk about NVidia low blow practices of bribing majors game developers with perks, and technical supports if they switch to use nvidia products : Physx, Cuda, etc and Mr Pierre Terdiman, acted condescending as if I did not know what I was talking about? check out this
https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-fires-back- ... ntroversy/
here is a small quote.
AMD has gone on the offensive against NVidia and its GeForce Partner Program (GPP), an affiliate program that incentivizes hardware partners to align their gaming brands exclusively with GeForce in exchange for additional marketing support and other perks. In a new blog post, AMD appears to take several thinly veiled shots at NVidia while promoting the importance of gamers having the "freedom to choose."


This is how Physx came to dominate the game market, by paying main developers if the add special NVidia features. It has nothing to do with quality.
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Re: Nvidia and AMD

Postby JoeJ » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:38 am

I think the raytracing SDK is a similar move with a much larger impact. It is as they silently convinced MS to suddenly add an OptiX alike API. Present some demos, show of dominance, innovation and leadership. I doubt there was discussion with other hardware vendors or software developers about this API. NV has 10 years of ray tracing experience, so they already know best.

What we get is a completely locked API. Stuff like acceleration structure is abstarcted away - you neither can use it for other purposes, nor can you use your own if you already have one. Rays are handled as single threads (as dump as pixel shaders), no way to communicate with others. Rays can start new rays and process their results - this means that important and long missing GPGPU features silently come to graphics APIs. But not in a way we can use it, only in a way they can use it under the hood to THEIR advantage, while limiting OUR innovation on both raytracing and other fields.
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Re: Nvidia and AMD

Postby Julio Jerez » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:37 pm

It is becoming a scandal now
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/04/17/amd-attacks-nvidia-geforce-partner-program-in-new-blog/#6d159ed472e8
But this has been going on for more than 20 years.
The reason they are saying now is that NVidia is not just targeting Game developers they are also going after pc manufactures not by doing fair bids, but by paying back if they use NVidia ships

they are satin this:
While not mentioned by name, this is a very transparent attack on Nvidia's not-so-transparent program, which allegedly pressures board partners into joining by promising marketing funds, extended promotional support and premium allocation of GPUs -- and revokes them for non-partners. I'll remind my readers that none of that is confirmed, but until Nvidia informs their community which partners are on board, and proves that these allegations are false, they're doing more damage than good to their reputation.

They say is not confirmed but I know that in the video area this is true.
This happened with Sony online game, the corrupting is staggering.
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Re: Nvidia and AMD

Postby Julio Jerez » Fri May 04, 2018 8:14 pm

It seems nvidia knows what they were doing.
https://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-just-kil ... e-program/

some reporter did an investigation and they discovered the same thing I have been saying for the pass 15 years about Nvdia heavy handed tactics.
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/03 ... mer_choice

They focused in hardware companies but this is far worse with small and medium size studios that do need a rain check for few hundred thousand doollar a years in support and ads per iproject for doing some "Nvidia exclusive feature" in return for some youtube video at the release, or else.
In general what the studio does is that the add the functionality and hide it, in such way that only people associated with nvidia enable it to make you tube video to embarrass other developers.

It is yet to see what happens if they drop Epic and Unity.
Without the backing of the order of several tens of million per year, will they continue to exclusively support only NVidia software and hardware?
I bet not, my guess is that nvidia will do what they always do, they will buy unreal, or unity, or both.

This reminds me of what Microsoft did to netscape back in the 90's when they make Widows 95 play friendly to Internet explorer and play hard ball with other browsers.
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Re: Nvidia and AMD

Postby Leadwerks » Sat May 05, 2018 10:38 am

I actually like it because other engines use PhysX and people complain about how unstable they are, so they come to me. :mrgreen:
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Re: Nvidia and AMD

Postby Dave Gravel » Sat May 05, 2018 7:17 pm

Hi, Here I only code for fun and learning.
I have nothing to prove, Only to my self.
I don't make or try to make money with my stuff.
I have try ut engine for fun and see new graphics effects.
It is a very nice editor and set of tools.
I have quickly cryin to don't find a newton dynamics plugin inside.
I can't say physx is bad for all, I have get some fun with particles and some simulations.
The player collision and body parts detection with bullets is a cool system.
The problems have start when I have try to get more real simulations, or more complex joint constructions.
I have get success to create multibody and raycast vehicle with any wheel count 2 and more...
Physx seen to have trouble to simulate tire.
The only real good result is from sphere shape and it is far to fix all troubles.
The tire collision popping randomly over the terrain,
If you try to fix it with a better shape you only get more popping troubles.
Same about the tire setup, nothing help to fix popping.
The terrain with optimized collision or not don't seen to help.
The vehicle raycast give better result because it is less popping and for multiplayer game.
The problem with raycast version, the simulation come quicly out of control when it interact with other collisions or just look un-real...
I talk here only about tire and terrain, I don't talk about other problems to interact with other collisions or players in the scene.
I have need to cheat all over my multibody construction about the mass and joints values.
If I don't cheat it just don't work normally, I always need to use crazy joint values or mass values.
If you try to setup the main physx options to get less calculs errors, It cost more speed you can see the physics is a bit better but all popping or collisions errors stay present.
If you like to use the physx game loop options, It is tagged experimental and can give random errors.
I understand it aiming game simulation, but newton can surely do all of this without that much problems with better result and i'm pretty sure.
The nice graphics from ut help a lot to hide some simulation problems.

I never have get many problems like this with newton.
My math levels is very low and I always success to create cool simulation and have fun with newton dynamics and with very great speed and physics result.
I never need to use crazy values to get my construction work, Real life value work directly from my default world size.
It is always fast to get support solution or fix in the forum.
Newton Dynamics is easy to use and implement with your how class.
I have test many physics engines, and I very love newton dynamics it is a very nice physics engine.

It's only my personal opinion about my NV physics experience.

Thanks for this nice Newton Dynamics physics tools.
Sorry about my english.
Last edited by Dave Gravel on Sun May 06, 2018 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nvidia and AMD

Postby Shaderman » Sun May 06, 2018 1:06 am

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Re: Nvidia and AMD

Postby JernejL » Sun May 06, 2018 4:01 am

Shaderman wrote:I just found this Pulling the Plug on GPP, Leaning into GeForce.


Just magic smoke curtain.. they are surely going to be doing this thru other, more undercover means..

I'm voting with my wallet, i already went to amd with cpu last year with new ryzen and i'm going to amd gpu this year aswell.
Help improving the Newton Game Dynamics WIKI
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Re: Nvidia and AMD

Postby JoeJ » Sun May 06, 2018 6:41 am

Either you're a successful 'bad guy' company, or you're less successful with the option to utilize 'good guy' image :wink:
They all just try to make money - trying to pile off competition is usual practice happening everywhere else too.

But i remember NV being quite innovative and open some years back. Now everything is closed and taylored to their advantage. And their self appointed awesomeness is really tiring.

NV gave us Gameworks, AMD gave us DX12/Vulkan. For me personally AMD also has faster GPUs - depends on what you do and how, but they can't compete in marketing and software development to show it off.
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Re: Nvidia and AMD

Postby Julio Jerez » Sun May 06, 2018 2:29 pm

JoeJ wrote:They all just try to make money - trying to pile off competition is usual practice happening everywhere else too..

Except that in the Unite States it is against the antitrust laws for a powerful and rich company to rig the system by bribing the customer to force out the competition.
Jon Rockefeller Stands Oil got busted for that, and more recently Microsoft and AT&T.
The fact that they so quickly are shooting down the program is a sign that they know what they are doing is borderline illegal and that if more powerful party take notice, they could be in hot water. NVidia is not and has never been a fair and straight company.
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Re: Nvidia and AMD

Postby Leadwerks » Mon May 07, 2018 2:26 am

JoeJ wrote:They all just try to make money - trying to pile off competition is usual practice happening everywhere else too.

Free market excuses do not apply in monopoly situations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_c ... ompetition

Anyone who has taken a basic economics course knows this.
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Re: Nvidia and AMD

Postby JoeJ » Mon May 07, 2018 3:56 am

I agree with such practices being wrong / not legal, but they keep happening. In my experience corruption is really everywhere up to some degree. It's a matter of risk management how far they dare to go. It's also an instrument of the rich and mighty to dominate the poor. :evil: I did not intend to excuse or play down anything of this here. I'm just the pessimistic and sarcastic guy :wink:
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Re: Nvidia and AMD

Postby Sweenie » Mon May 07, 2018 6:14 am

This talk reminds me of the late 80's when my hometown's toystore and electronics store sort of made a cartel agreement. They made a deal that the toystore would be the only one selling Game&Watch games and the electronics store would be the only one selling this new console called NES. Guess which store drew the short straw. :wink:
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