Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

A place to discuss everything related to Newton Dynamics.

Moderators: Sascha Willems, walaber

Re: Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

Postby Stucuk » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:28 pm

Carli wrote:Sourceforge also provides bugtracker functionality

People can easily report bugs in this thread. Its not like there have been so many bugs reported that we then need some bugtracker to handle the shear volume.

Carli wrote:and the ability to offer patches.

We already host "patches"... Don't understand the benefit. When we update the headers we always post in this topic, so people can always find every version(See my first post in this topic).

Carli wrote:So why don't use the infrastructure?

Because its a header. If it was an actual project with alot of lines of code then id understand. It just seems the same as using a Rocket Launcher to kill an ant.
User avatar
Stucuk
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

Postby JernejL » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:17 am

But it works, i saw sourceforge used for more silly things.. so why not?

If the newton website wasn't hosted where it currently is, we might be able to install our own svn repo on it, but we can't atm.
Help improving the Newton Game Dynamics WIKI
User avatar
JernejL
 
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:00 pm
Location: Slovenia

Re: Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

Postby Stucuk » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:00 pm

Delfi wrote:But it works, i saw sourceforge used for more silly things.. so why not?

Rocket Launcher fired at ants work, doesn't mean its as efficient as using a method thats more tailored to your needs. I don't get the obsesson with using svn for everything under the sun rather than just for things which benefit from it. What people use should be tailored to there needs.

Ultimately if people want to start a project on sourceforge and maintain it then there free to. I won't.
User avatar
Stucuk
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

Postby JernejL » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:28 pm

1. sourceforge is free.
2. every sane developer uses svn or git, if the newest header is availible from say.. a svn repository then it's really easy to integrate it from external source, trace version changes and everything else.

We could as well make a svn repository on this website itself even for the newton library itself. (If the website is moved to another host where it would be possible to set that up properly ofcourse).
Help improving the Newton Game Dynamics WIKI
User avatar
JernejL
 
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:00 pm
Location: Slovenia

Re: Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

Postby Stucuk » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:52 am

sourceforge is free.

What does being free got to do with anything. I am not spending extra money to maintain a header... its a header. So being free doesn't change a thing as im not currently using a solution which costs money.

every sane developer uses svn or git,

So im insane because i don't use svn or git for projects which are small and/or are not intended to have there source publicly available(Note that im talking in a general sense rather than just the header)? I use whatever is best for the situation, i don't buy into the one solution for everything *.

svn repository then it's really easy to integrate it from external source

Its just as easy to integrate a header doing it the current way. Its not like the header generally(I know it occasionally does) has alot of parameter changes to the main procedures which then make the new header completely break your application. Given its only one file that you need to diff, then any standard diff application is fine for working out the differences between two headers.

trace version changes

Get a Diff application, give it the old and new files, hit a button, bing you now know what has changed. Its not hard at all to do that on SMALL projects which you only need to diff one file. We arn't talking about a large project, its a header.

-----

But like i keep saying, if you want to make a svn and maintain the headers do so. Im not going to do it, nor will i participate.
User avatar
Stucuk
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

Postby JernejL » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:13 am

Stucuk, i don't know if you ever worked in a professional development environment.. You may have your own special approach to everything, but people using newton usually do use use things like svn repositories and file versioning. I doubt that you will find a single modern game development project that does not use a repository to store files, it's used by companies, research groups, and for personal use aswell.

Yet you diss such proven concepts as file versioning and file repositories and seem to love bumping heads over such ridiclous trivial reasons..

So i ask you: Please start being more open to other people's opinions. If you are making a header file for others to use then you should listen to their opinions and wishes aswell. If you make a translated header purely for yourself then you can ofcourse do as you please.

There are some times where you could be a bit more flexible and perhaps you would then learn a thing or two while listening to other people's opinions, esperiences and working procedures.. If you consider only your opinion the right one then there's a word about that: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fanatic .
Help improving the Newton Game Dynamics WIKI
User avatar
JernejL
 
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:00 pm
Location: Slovenia

Re: Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

Postby Stucuk » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:56 am

but people using newton usually do use use things like svn repositories and file versioning. I doubt that you will find a single modern game development project that does not use a repository to store files, it's used by companies, research groups, and for personal use aswell.

They arn't using SVN/Git for a single file. So i don't see what that has to do with this discussion. I have only stated that i think SVN/Git is pointless when its used for things like a header not for things like company projects/research groups/etc. This is my view, which i think i am entitled to (I never said you couldn't believe differently).

seem to love bumping heads over such ridiclous trivial reasons..

I have only stated My opinion. I have never made statements that state that people who don't agree with me are insane like you have.

There are some times where you could be a bit more flexible and perhaps you would then learn a thing or two while listening to other people's opinions, esperiences and working procedures

Sais the person who won't let me have my own viewpoint.

If you are making a header file for others to use then you should listen to their opinions and wishes aswell.

I made a header for myself and decided id be a nice person and release the header to the public so that others could benefit from it. I am not selling any kind of service, i never stated i would always keep the header up to date, i never promised people anything. If you knew anything about me, you would know that i generally do listen to peoples opinions, i do generally implement whatever stuff people want me to implement in applications/etc, but when it comes to how i work, i will do it however i want to do it. Just because you like using SVN for headers doesn't mean everyone else has to just because you want everyone to. I never try and force you to have the same work practices as i do, so why are you trying to force me?

If you make a translated header purely for yourself then you can ofcourse do as you please

Even if i didn't make it for myself, and did it 100% free just for the community then i could still do it however i pleased because no one would be paying me anything.

------

The bottom line is this: Everyone is entitled to work however they please. As i have said, if people want to maintain the header using an SVN/Git then they are free to do so, but i will continue with the current methods as i am entitled to.

I don't see why me not agreeing with you is such a big issue. I have already stated on many occasions that YOU can make a project on SourceForge and maintain it if you want. My participation shouldn't matter. Its not like im stopping you from using SVN/git.
User avatar
Stucuk
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

Postby JernejL » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:44 am

I was merely agreeing with Carli and suggested you, that his suggestion is maybe worth a second thought as you dismissed it so quickly without even considering any benefits that it would offer.

I didn't tell you what to do at all, i just asked you to rethink, gave some suggestions and my input, i didn't even tell you to use svn or exclusively svn, i didn't say that you are insane, just that your arguments against versioning the header are irrational.

All you would have to do is hit a single "commit" button after you edit the header - which is all that's neccesary, but ok, you think it's not worth the effort.
Help improving the Newton Game Dynamics WIKI
User avatar
JernejL
 
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:00 pm
Location: Slovenia

Re: Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

Postby Stucuk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:41 pm

I have looked at SVN, etc before. I know what they are but i don't see any real benefit to the current method. Nothing anyone has said has convinced me that life will be better just by using SVN for a header. In my opinion there is no real benefit to me or anyone else. The main problem we currently have is when people that will remain nameless update there header without checking this topic first to see if there was a new version released. We don't have problems with distribution, seeing what the differences between version were, etc. The problem with nameless people not checking this topic before updating there version can easily be solved by people checking this topic.

just that your arguments against versioning the header are irrational.

Exactly. My opinion that they won't provide any valid benefits for a header are "Irrational" even though i have responded with valid arguments. We arn't talking about an actual project where its a benefit to be able to see all the changes that have been made, so you can then find bugs that you introduced by comparing older code to newer code, etc. I have never made any irrational claims that SVN is the root of all evil and has no use in the world. I stated that i believe that in this situation it doesn't provide any real benefit that will make life easier. How that is irrational is beyond me.
User avatar
Stucuk
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

Postby Kjow » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:22 pm

I think the main advantage is to have all version always availabe to everyone, everytime. There will be a professional host that will mantain every version through times.
E.g. if a day the header will be not available (cause host fault or something else), we will not disturb any developer asking to re-upload it. Just an example.

Finally, with a "zip" release (not only through svn) anyone could take it easily with more visibility.

Of course, through svn I think team development will be easier.

Just my 2 cent.

Anyway, thank you all to maintain this great header-project :)
Kjow
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:33 am

Re: Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

Postby Stucuk » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:03 pm

Practically every version can be downloaded. The first post in this thread has a list of every header i have released. My websites are up about 95%(or more) of the time. Having things in a zip file has nothing to do with source forge. RAR is a very common format thats superior to Zip files. Most applications that are designed to read Zip files will also read Rar files due to how common they are.
User avatar
Stucuk
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

Postby Carli » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:25 am

Stucuk wrote:RAR is a very common format thats superior to Zip files. Most applications that are designed to read Zip files will also read Rar files due to how common they are.


It's not about "support these - support that".
It's just a matter of time how long do you spend to open a website, open a zip archive, press "unpack", select the folder, find the right place for the file, klick ok..... or just a "hg pull -u" and everything is done.
You know what I mean?

and at least, version control is also a good backup. Just imagine Julios Hard drive would break because it's >5 Years old. Then, we have no more newton developement, just some compiled binaries.
Carli
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:28 am

Re: Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

Postby Stucuk » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:51 pm

Carli wrote:You know what I mean?

Yes i know, your lazy. The argument that downloading a file off a website and then unpacking it which hardly takes any time at all and is only done every few months is too hard for people and as a result is a legitimate reason to use sourceforge is a load of *.

Carli wrote:and at least, version control is also a good backup. Just imagine Julios Hard drive would break because it's >5 Years old. Then, we have no more newton developement, just some compiled binaries.

We are talking about headers, not a full blown project. And the headers are open source. So even if my computer blew up, there would still be an open source copy on my website. Sascha also has open source copies on his website. So the argument that an open source header should be stored in source forge because a hard drive which doesn't contain the only copy could die, is another BS reason.
User avatar
Stucuk
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

Postby Sascha Willems » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:04 pm

I have updated my headers to 2.32. As usual you can grab them here : http://www.saschawillems.de/?page_id=76
User avatar
Sascha Willems
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:18 am
Location: Germany

Re: Official Pascal-Header (SDK 2.0)

Postby JernejL » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:44 pm

Here is a suggestion: the delphi header could be now merged and added & distributed with the offical newton SVN repository.
Help improving the Newton Game Dynamics WIKI
User avatar
JernejL
 
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:00 pm
Location: Slovenia

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

cron