Newton's cradle

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Postby Thomas » Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:03 am

here is a screenshot with the new exe (i use a gf4):
Image

it looks like the shadows are ok up to about the half of the view distance and then they are inverted?

but except for the shadows the demo is great! :)
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Postby registration information » Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:09 am

I can't test the demo because of a missing dll on my system (gdiplus.dll) (i'll have to update my system :P)

However, if you use opengl, then, seems to me that this shadow volume problem could be a problem of missing cap into the shadow volume (the cap is probably going out of the zfar plane).

edit : zpass or zfail ?
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Postby Sascha Willems » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:03 pm

The shadows are capped and I use Z-Fail together with an infinite projection matrix, so I dunno where the problem comes from. And it only seems to affect Nvidia, as I can zoom as far away as I want on my Radeon 9700 without the shadows messing up.

Any of you guys that have problems also experience wrong shadows in my car demo (the one with the huge track, in the dl-section of this page)? As it uses the same sources and technique for the shadows.
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Postby tomek » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:08 pm

gdiplus is only on XP
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Postby registration information » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:52 pm

Sascha Willems wrote:The shadows are capped and I use Z-Fail together with an infinite projection matrix, so I dunno where the problem comes from. And it only seems to affect Nvidia, as I can zoom as far away as I want on my Radeon 9700 without the shadows messing up.

Any of you guys that have problems also experience wrong shadows in my car demo (the one with the huge track, in the dl-section of this page)? As it uses the same sources and technique for the shadows.


ah ! :D you're the one who made the car demo :)
I successfuly tested it, shadows worked fine (but i'm using an ATI ... so :P)

Well ... i've just watched your site ... Seems you're far to be a noob. I feel a bit stupid now with my humble attempt to help :oops:

---

@tomek : i use Win2K :?
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Postby Stucuk » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:21 pm

Its exactly the same except the secondary shadow has been moved. Its still there tho.

EDIT: Images

http://www.universalphpscripts.com/temp ... radle2.zip

Note: i highlighted the secondary shadows in green. From what i can tell all u have done is made the shadows more to the back right.
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Postby Sascha Willems » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:18 am

@Shadows :
Thanks for the information. I'll plug in my second PC that has an GeForce4 plugged into and try to figure out what happens. And yes, I put the light source to another position in the fixed exe, but also changed some stuff in the code hoping that it would fix it.

@GDIPlus :
The DLL for GDIPlus can be downloaded at Microsofts HP. I used it in my texture loader for PNG-support, but since this demo does not load any PNGs at all I'll throw it out, so that you guys don't need the dll.

So give me some time and I'll have a fixed version of this demo up and running.
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Postby Sascha Willems » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:48 am

Fixed version is up, link is the same.

I've fixed the shadows on NVidia and also removed all dependencies on GDIPlus.dll, so all you guys that had problems should now be able to run this. I've also changed the light's position so that the shadows now seem more real (light comes from moon's position).

For all interested on why the shadows were fubar'd on NVidia : Like in my car demo I was using a polygon offset to get rid of self-shadowing artefacts. For this you specifiy an offset and a factor which seem to differ very much depending on the hardware. So now (like I already did in my car demo) I check wether it's ATI/Nvidia and choose different offsets and factors (I use a default value for all other vendors).
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Postby registration information » Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:00 am

Works fine ^_^
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Postby Sascha Willems » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:33 pm

A user on another forum (PGD) recently asked if I could add realtime-reflections to the balls of the cradle and I just could not resist. Here are a few screenshots of the "tuned" version of my demo :

(Click for 800x600)
Image Image Image

And don't ask : I won't release it. The demo is very demanding and my Radeon 9700 only manages 8 to 10 fps in an 800x600 window. The demo also uses glSlang shaders for water refraction (wich is animated btw.) and for doing sheen-lighting and details on the balls. The reflections on the balls are realtime and updated every frame and are realized using dynamic cubemaps. This means everything is reflected, even the already reflecting balls.

Edit : I'm right now doing some speed-up's to the rendering so that it already runs with a steady 30 fps instead of ~10 in the first place. So I maybe once again will update the demo in the coming days so that users of PS2.0 graphicscards get some more eye-candy.
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Postby registration information » Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:33 am

Hello Sascha Willems,


Bad news.

I've jsut tested your demo once more, but using a GF 6600GT this time. I think you'll have to tune offset once more, because i get zfighting :(

http://s05.imagehost.org/1012/newton_newtoncraddle_bug_20050409_1235_00_zfight.jpg
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Postby Sascha Willems » Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:37 am

Here is the (mainly graphically) updated version :download version 2.0 of the demo (~2 MBytes).

Changes :
  • Some minor changes to the joints configuration, so that the cradle now
    should act even more realistic
  • Dynamic reflections on the balls, using dynamic cubemaps
  • Support for some eye-candy on cards that support glSlang (Shader Model 2.0) :
    * The dynamic reflection balls are lighting using sheen lighting
    * The reflections on the water are now distorted to give a more realistic water effect

Here are two screenshots (click for 800x600) :

Image Image

left : Everything enabled, including shaders via glSlang. This can only be done on cards that support Shader Modell 2.0. It should work with all GeForce from 5200 and up and all Radeons 9500 and up.

right : Basic version that does not use shader. Reflections on the balls are still dynamic, works on all other cards.


P.S. : I could test the shaders and advanced stuff only on a Radeon 9700. Would be nice if GeForce (FX) 5x00/6x00 users could tell if it works and if it looks proper.

@registration information :
Since I don't have a GF6600 at hand it's almost impossible to tweak the offset and factor to get them to work, since this is a tedious process and it can take some time to find the right values. I searched around the net and did not find any usefull information on offset and factors for self-shadowing, so it's hard to get it right. I'll have to see what I can do.
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Postby registration information » Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:54 am

I've just tested V2 on the 6600GT.
Excepted the zfighting, everything else seems to works corectly ^_^

By the way, i remember that when i tested V1 with my 9200, the offset was not effective : there were still self-shadows :-/ (edit : not 100% sure though)
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Postby Stucuk » Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:24 am

registration information wrote:Hello Sascha Willems,


Bad news.

I've jsut tested your demo once more, but using a GF 6600GT this time. I think you'll have to tune offset once more, because i get zfighting :(

http://s05.imagehost.org/1012/newton_newtoncraddle_bug_20050409_1235_00_zfight.jpg


I get this tho not as bad

Geforce FX 5900 XT

Could u add a fps display, would be nice to know how good its running
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